Rape, S&M, and Homoeroticism in “Relics of An Emissary” Spur Comparison to “3D Sex and Zen”
TVB series, Relics of An Emissary <洪武三十二> averaged 26 points in ratings last week, with 1.66 million viewers watching the drama. Entering its finale next week, the ratings should increase next week. Relics of An Emissary may be considered a historical drama, following Joe Ma’s Zhu Di ascension to the throne as the Emperor Yan. However, many scenes were highly sensual: Michael Tse peeking at a bathing Kate Tsui, a passionate French kiss between Michael and Kate, a nude Joe Ma massaged by eunuch, Sammul Chan in a bath together, Joe whipped by Kate in a sadistic manner, and Sire Ma’s rape scene. These five major scenes were limited by television censorship, but the ideology for a historical drama was bold. No wonder viewers’ blood boiled after watching Relics of An Emissary, even nicknaming the series as the television version of Category III film, 3D Sex and Zen <肉蒲團>! Some parents also complained that certain scenes in Relics of An Emissary were poor influences on children.
Broadcasting Authority Received Complaints
Relics of An Emissary was broadcast during the weeknights from 8:30 PM to 9:30 PM in Hong Kong, a time in which families ate dinner together. Yesterday, the Broadcasting Authority received a total of nine complaints. Five complaints protested that intimate kissing should not be broadcast during family viewing time. Three complaints protested violence and overexposure content. One complaint was filed against a scene in which a live fish may have been abused in the filming of the series.
Currently in China, Joe Ma noted in a telephone interview, “In the series, Sammul Chan and I have a subordinate-master relationship. I don’t know why they see it as having gay elements. However, I’m happy that many people are discussing the series. Historically, Emperor Yan pretended to be insane, but I don’t know if he did in fact share a bath with Sam Po (Sammul Chan).” Regarding Emperor Yan’s S&M preference, Joe laughed, “Emperor Yan was a somewhat perverted figure; he was crazy and violent.” (Did Joe feel that the passionate scenes were too much for children to watch?) “I do not know the final results of the series. You should watch it as a historical drama, with entertaining aspects.”
In fact, many viewers praised Joe’s uninhibited portrayal of his character. Netizens left online messages supporting his election as TVB’s Best Actor this year. Regarding allegations that Relics of An Emissary contained explicit matter, TVB’s Deputy Director External Affairs, Tsang Sing Ming, responded, “The series was reviewed internally to comply with the Broadcasting Authority’s ordinance. We will forward the audience’s suggestions to the production department for reference.”
Voyeurism
In Relics of An Emissary, Michael and Kate share passionate scenes. To assist Michael in hiding in her room and prevent discovery from other palace guards, Kate bathed nude in a wooden bucket. Michael’s eyes roved over Kate’s nude form. Despite realizing Michael’s presence, Kate did not mind being observed and raised her leg, taking time to bathe slowly. Although the actual exposure was limited, Kate’s bold acting and sultry eyes fit the scenario perfectly. Exposing only her shoulders, legs, and hands, Kate made many viewers sweat and create screen captures for their personal collection.
Sire Ma’s Rape
Sire Ma portrays maid, Siu Kiu, who was raped by Brocade Guard, Lam King Kong. Sire was infected with sexually-transmitted disease after the rape. The rape scene depicted Sire crying desolately, while the camera panned to a nearby rice sack. In past series, flower petals often fell to the ground to indicate a woman’s violation. In Relics of An Emissary, the sack ruptured and leaked rice. Fortunately, Sire was able to destroy the rapist, causing the male audience to applaud.
Sadism and Masochism
Emperor Yan was quite crazy-minded. Despite the Ming dynasty setting, he preferred sadistic and masochistic (S&M) treatment. Allegedly, Emperor Yan was aware of his sinful actions and asked Kate Tsui to whip him. After the whipping, he took off his clothes and appeared ecstatic. He laughed at Kate and said, “Great! Let’s do it again!” Joe was very convincing in portraying a perverted character, causing netizens to compare Relics of an Emissary to 3D Sex and Zen. Netizens asked, “How come a good costume drama contained such [S&M] scenes between Joe Ma and Kate Tsui and had nothing to do with occurrences in the thirty-second year of Hongwu?”
Homoerotic Massage
Creamy faced and rosy lipped Sammul Chan portrays eunuch, Sam Po, who later assumed the name of Zheng He. The design of the character was already a winner! Sam Po was Emperor Yan’s trusted policy maker and possessed intelligence and talent. Sam Po was loyal towards Emperor Yan, however one scene forced audience’s thoughts to stray. In one scene, a topless Sammul helped Joe bathe and even massaged his shoulders. The scene was extremely homoerotic and made the master-subordinate relationship appear more ambiguous. However, this scene was just a cover, as Sammul’s true love was not Joe or Elanne Kong, but rather Macy Chan, who did not mind that he was a castrated eunuch.
French Kissing
In Relics of An Emissary, Michael Tse had a topless bed scene which exposed his tattoos and strong muscles. Michael looked at Kate boldly before removing her clothes and kissed her deeply. Although the pair only revealed their shoulders in the bed scene, Kate appeared to have used her tongue in the kissing scene. Kate had an ecstatic expression during the bed scene, fueling viewers’ fantasies.
Excerpt from Appledaily
Jayne: Appledaily indeed made Relics of an Emissary sound very steamy. Are the steamy scenes necessary for the plot? Perhaps to display the intensity and passionate natures of the characters. Was Relics of an Emissary influenced by 3D Sex and Zen? Probably.
The scene I am most interested in seeing is the bath scene between Sammul and Joe. Is it as homoerotic as netizens made it sound? It depends on what they were talking about while sharing the bath together.
I think those scenes are necessary. TVB should not have given this drama such an early time slot!
I think those scenes are fresh breath to TVB and necessary. HK people have bad taste but I agree that this is Joe Ma’s breakthrough. This is the first time I think he can act quite good and suitable for his character. It’s good to know that he’s being supported for Best Actor it’s better him than Moses in YSSS
Sammul look cute in this series. I admire his soft looking skin and clean face appearance. Joe Ma look so old and rough in that scene compare to Sammul
Haha, I admire Joe Ma’s manly rough in this scene than Sammul.
Is this drama good? I don’t like Kate Tsui and Joe isn’t my taste of tea but Sammul looks good!
Well… Relic has a pretty set audience. If you’re a fan of historical epics and detective fiction, then you’ll most likely enjoy it.
Watch it for Sammul. He looks great in the series.
Joe Ma really suits and convincing in his character. He should choose more of this type of strong and fierce characters because his tall, dark and fierce face suits them.
Kate is also suitable for her strong character. She should just stick for this kind of roles.
Yes, Sammul’s really eyecandy in Relic. 😀 His eyes are so expressive, and whenever I see him I can’t not look at his eyes because they’re so mesmerizing.
@scarlee – Sammul is great :).
I just don’t like Elanne Kong. I agree with most netizens that she looks like a transvestite and looks too modern in this ancient series. Her voice is the worst on her.
I cannot stand Elanne’s voice either….so so annoying
Was Sammul wearing some type of contact lenses in this series? The contact lenses make his eyes look more attracting.
@Cynthia – Yes. That’s because Sammul’s character, Zheng He, is not full Han Chinese. He has some Persian and ethnic minority blood in him. After Michael and Sammul’s first fight (Episode 1), Michael called Sammul a 色目人 (Semu – you can search up the definition for that on wiki) because he noticed the different color of his eyes.
Its a ok drama… not ok by the TVB ratings… should have air it at 9:30 pm slot
this sick gay looks good? Kidding?
the gay stuff is funny stuff, or mad, but was it intentional hanky panky? I really dislike the songs, K like junky!
I say Below average, to much ”ching ching tap tap” tipical tvb series. My Rating is 5 out of 10, is’nt that bad, but theres better, or were better!!
Joe Ma’s Acting were the same in ‘Jing-ba’ Sam’s Acting has improved alot, especially in the bath scene which made me throw up, lol
Thank you TVB! Now I am even more keen on this series. Are they suggesting a relationship between Joe and Sammul’s characters? I suspect so, even in history. This is brave. And for once a real kiss. I think I might just like Kate Tsui. reminds me of Irene Wan’s Golden Lotus series? Very bold kissings scenes in that series.
Kate sounds experienced and used to these bold scenes.
She’s just a good actress =P
Kate looks cheap and cheerful, lol.
seems her acting hav’nt improve by a mile, Kate’s best acting is showing her cold-to-dead face expression, or not really part of acting, haha.
I haven’t gotten that far into the drama yet (I’m only on episode 14 or so) but I remember Joe has mentioned their relationship being ambiguous in an interview. I think Joe was suggesting that their relationship does have room for more development. 😀
@Funn,
I remember Irene Wan’s passionate kisses with Sin Lap Man in Golden Lotus. I thought Irene’s feeding of grapes was quite bold, probably the most erotic kiss TVB had filmed onscreen.
I remember that too. It was sitting on lap, mouth to mouth exchange of grapes? Frankly very on theme with the eroticism of the story but also very bold.
Funn,
I don’t remember if Irene was sitting on Sin Lap Man’s lap. I think they may have been taking a bath together. There were a lot of bath scenes in the series. Sin Lap Man is also a decent actor, with a passionate nature that is quite electric, much better than Tsui Kam Kong, who just comes across as sleazy.
I thought he looked sleazy, sort of suited the character. Can’t remember, so long ago, was just shocked TV at that time showed such eroticism. Recently saw Water Margin aka All Men Are Brothers and had this story and frankly kinda chaste. In retrospect I do pity Golden Lotus and in some alt interpretation Simon Heng maybe really did fell for her.
the hairstyle and costume look so old style . Feel like watching series from 80’s. Elanne kong voice, look and acting so horrible in this series. Don’t think she’s suitable for ancient series. She’s quite ok for modern series tho.
yeah she is so awful actually the whole series sucks. only like Joe Ma and Samuel
Laughing gor was’nt bad in his roles, ie as a Sushi chef. the trashy Queen looks so ugly, just dislike her or something to do with her evil eye, ideal for playing witch or with as a B____ch !!
Clothes from the 80’s were WAY better looking than this. The clothes is ugly in here from watching it so far. Well, TVB’s clothes has gotten ugly for a long time now anyways.
The costumes from the 80s were all burnt down in a fire in the late 80s so they are all gone now.. That is why we don’t see them anymore. TVB is cheap so they don’t want to spend the money on designing nice clothese like that anymore,therefore, they design and make cheaper ones to save money.
@ HeTieShou – I think they managed to save a couple of them since in the 90’s I still saw some of them on screen lol. But still, they had a lot of nice pretty clothes in the 80’s and early 90’s. Mid 90’s were still nice but wasn’t as graceful.
@FanWen,
Really, you did see some? I don’t remember seeing any since I watched the 90s series too. Can you remember which ones that you saw?? Most of them are gone for sure. I don’t think the clothing from the 90s were the nice. Some are from the early 90s are nice but after that, a lot of them became poor and dull looking. They also did not change as much either.
I’m not a fan of this series. It’s ok but doesn’t hold my attention to every scene.
I actually find the bed scenes between Kate and Michael to be quite steamy! Kate’s really experienced in terms of erm…kissing and bed scenes lol. She actually makes them seem more real than most other dramas I’ve seen, lots better than the bed scenes with Kenneth & Bernice in the mysteries of love.
I haven’t seen the Joe Ma and Sammul scene yet. Not sure what to expect…
Kate did almost get frozen a few years ago because she told her sexual preference on a radio show. Maybe Bernice and Kenneth has less experience rofl
What did kate say abotu her sexual preference? I think Kenneth have less experience than Bernice, usually the male actors lead those kind of scenes. Bernice once even said the way that kenneth kissed was “uncomfortable” cuz he can’t pushing her nose flat.
For some reason, when you said sexual preference, I was thinking Kate would make a great lesbian on camera. She’s sexy and has seductive eyes.
what episode is the steamy scene? gotta see this since everyone is praising it.
It shows throughout the start of the series as a flashback. I’ve only seen halfway through the series though. I’m pretty sure it’s just the one scene they did they they keep replaying.
I think Kate’s personality is just bold in general. I think only she can pull off the music video for a song with lyrics “Oh hit me hit me hit me”
I have to say Joe is doing a great job in his role. I usually don’t care much for his performances but I think this is a breakthrough for him. He suits the character very well. And I know a lot of people don’t like Kate, but I find her the perfect actress to play this role. I can’t imagine anyone else playing this role. Maybe Fala, but she probably wouldn’t be able to do the kissing and intimate scenes convincingly like Kate did.
I think the intimate scenes were necessary and it wasn’t even revealing much except the arms and shoulders! I wasn’t bothered with the scene of Sammul and Joe because of their close relationship. Joe probably had complete trust in his character. Since these historical figures were quite complex and controversial, I think these erotic scenes made sense. But, knowing how the HK audience is, I do think that the timeslot for this should have switched with “Yes Sir, Sorry Sir.” But of course, parents will complain about the fighting and drug use scenes, too. TVB cannot please everyone.
Relic is much darker and bolder than YSSS. I started the series and only managed to watch one episode. The humor is way boring. I’m not sure if I should still continue since at this point, only Moses has appeared. I don’t think the drug and fighting thing is a big issue since that is bound to appear in every cop drama. The time slot should have been swapped. I would prefer something lighthearted to watch during dinner time too.
I really don’t think the complaints should matter too much. I mean, out of the 2.5 million people who are watching Relic, only about 20 complained. That’s nothing. Besides, the HK netizens seem to love the show.
Disagree with Joe’s acting, as I suggested, same as his role in ‘jing-ba’ which was a good series
1. Joe Ma = he is fantastic!!! I love his charisma and his attitude. I was very blow away from his performance.
2. Micheal Tse = always like him after lauging goh. Cuz that role was memorable. His acting skill is so naturally. I like him evil or as a nice guy.
3. Sammul Chan = very talented actor. He can speaks with his eyes. It is good for him to leave TVB, cuz in acting world, there is more then TVB.
4. Kate Tsui = I was supprise! Cuz I thought she only what she can do is ‘ being sexy’ I like she playing evil.
5. Sky = the role is totally fit her. She got a nice voice.
6. Ellane Kong = never like her, never will. Her eyes are too big. If she take a surgery for her eyes, she must also take a surgery for her nose. Her nose are big too. And her voice!!! Ahhhggggggg……. She like a cartoon!!!!!
I very like ‘Relic’. Love the story. Love the cast ( except elanne). About the complains:
– kissing: was very realistic
– Joe and Sammul: Sammul is a enuch, so what is the big deal?
– maybe it fits more if TVB air at 9:30 pm?
Or maybe I from Europe. Nothing is a big deal here (sex and the city) 🙂
I agree with you, and lol about Kate, seems like you had a REALLY bias opinion on kate before this show. That’s not surprising, alot of people disliked Kate in general cuz they only thought she could do “one” kind of roles. I always thought Kate was a good actress despite if it’s good or evil. She has a great personality too.
@Loekie
I just started watching “Relics of An Emissary.” Got lured with the publicity and good word of mouth to give it a try.
*POSSIBLE SPOILERS*
I only saw 2 episodes so far, but I find the 3 male leads’ characters, Joe, Michael, and Sammul fascinating. The leads are all intelligent and complex characters and the battle of wits is enjoyable to watch. Love series with intelligent dialogue and well scripted power-play struggles.
Joe Ma: He’s bold, commanding and has an angry streak here. He fits his character, although his eyes bulge just a little too much. Joe sang the theme song well overall, strong voice. Compared to his half-brothers in the series, his character truly stands out. I have to watch more to judge his performance.
Sammul Chan: He’s very suitable for the role. He plays intelligent types very convincingly. His character has charm and his eyes are indeed very attractive twinkling in merriment.
Michael Tse: IMO, Michael’s face has a cruel streak; perhaps it is how his lips look. I noticed his cruel streak in “The Rippling Blossom” as well. Michael is good in playing arrogant and fliratious characters with a slightly cruel twist. I liked his character in episode 1 more, a ruthless imperial guard willing to use any methods to accomplish his mission. He has amnesia in episode 2 and although his investigative mind is still in place, his personality turns softer and kinder. I prefer his more ruthless character, although the amnesia does complicate the plot, which makes it more interesting.
Joel Chan: He’s unconvincing as the pure-hearted prince. Does his character undergo a major change later in the series, or he continues to remain genuine?
I found the dialogue enjoyable, as it adheres to the period and conveys the intricacies and nuances of more formal Chinese language. I don’t like it when TVB modernize the lines for ancient drama comedies, relying on anachronisms for humor. That’s why I don’t like time-travel themes, such as “A Step Into the Past,” and the upcoming “Back to the Three Kingdoms.”
Will continue to watch more episodes of “Relics of An Emissary.” Btw, I got sidetracked from “7 Days in Life,” in which the mystery was unfolding too slowly.
Btw, I love Japanese anime, “Death Note,” in which there was a gripping battle of wits between the Interpol police and the anti-hero, a brilliant genius student serial killer. Highly recommend this! This is not your typical teen anime, but rather a dark exploration in criminal psychology and asks the question: What if you possess the power to kill anyone you choose?
@ Jayne: Do you think “N” is necessary in Death Note?
I felt so sad to L. N is just a copy of L, but Kira lost to N, not L (of course, without L N can’t do anything). Still feel sad with L’s death.
That’s why I like the live action where N is actually L. It’s more convincing.
If you like Death Note, maybe you’ll like Samurai Deeper Kyo. It’s also an untypical story where you can’t define Kyo or Kyoshiro, who is the baddie. The manga is slightly better than the anime, but the anime is also worth to watch.
Code: Breaker is a good manga/anime to watch. Good, bad, friend, rival, all hard to understand who is who.
Relic script is a thousand times better than 7DIL primary school level script. My little brother can write a series like that and Steven Ma is annoying.
Fox,
L was likely everyone’s favorite character in “Death Note.” His cat-and-mouse chase with Light was very grippling and loved the scenes where they spoke in riddles, yet they were able to decipher so much about their respective enemies. I found the first half of the anime in “Death Note” the most engaging.
L’s death, which was a huge letdown for fans, was necessary. After defeating L, Light almost ascended to god-like status and he became bolder and frankly bored since he thought he will never be caught. L’s death was critical to Light’s character evolvement and at the same time, the circumstances of his death also helped Near and Mello figure out more about Light.
I also like how multiple detectives were introduced, each with different personalities and methods, while trying to catch one brilliant criminal. It made the chase seem more “impossible” and grippling.
Fox, btw thanks for the anime suggestions and will look into the titles you mentioned. I have limited time to watch tv, so it’s good to go on someone’s suggestions to make sure my time is not wasted. 🙂 I prefer anime to manga though.
I have read a sequel of Death Notes, dun rmb its name. It’s about N (After Kira’s death) vs a new owner of Death Notes. Uhm, it’s kinda boring.
I think N is nothing more than a bad copy of L. From the weird way he used to think to his words, all have the shadow of L. Understand that L is the idol of N, but the author made N stay in the too big shadow of L, therefore N dun have a life. But Kira – the one who “killed” L, then being killed by the copy of L. That’s why L’s fans got mad.
Uhm, I’m reading few long story of Doraemon and I see some same matters that Death Notes wants to say: The definition of good and bad.
Kira did bad thing, or good thing? A world without Kira will be any better?
Lol, the manga/anime always give me more to think than any TVB series :P.
To recommend good anime, have you watched Elfen Lied? It’s dark, bold and full of sadness. Yes, ppl may see the ecchi parts in it but overall it’s a very good anime. Very touching.
Fox,
I haven’t watched anime in a long time. “Death Note” was one of those rare recent anime I watched on American cable television. I prefer anime that is deeper and more adult-themed than the typical teen student fluff with light-hearted romance (showing my age). I also despise magical girls genre. I still love animation as a medium because of the beautiful visuals and unique story-telling opportunity.
People have their own perceptions and permutations of justice. However, it’s difficult to judge other people’s crimes using our own emotional bias or sometimes self-serving needs. Imagine a one-person jury panel? Initially Kira killed criminals who got away with the justice system, which some may agree with, especially if he agreed to kill Osama bin Laden types. However, Kira got corrupted by power and his justification for killing became self-serving, where he killed L because he did not want to be caught. Kira strayed from his initial premise to use the “Death Note” as a tool of justice, therefore he was no different than other murderers who committed crimes for self-serving needs.
I once served as a juror on a rape case and it is a great burden to have to decide on someone’s fate based on a 4 day trial period. The case had DNA evidence, but even so, it didn’t make me feel good giving the guilty vote. The victim was raped when she was 14 and the trial didn’t take place until 5 years later. All the suffering that the victim had gone through can not be imagined, a guilty sentence resulting in 4 years of prison will not be able to change her life.
Only 4 years in prison for rape? Why it’s too short like this? I don’t know the whole case as well as the law system in your place but the penal seems to be too short to a serious crime like this.
I don’t say Kira’s action is good because we all can’t expect everything. Help a person to continue the life is a good thing, but then this person kill 100 other ppl, save him = a crime.
4 years only? In malaysia we have flogging and I am all for it. I will have no trouble handing a guilty sentence. I feel no compassion for the guilty since my compassion is better served with the victim. Same with death penalty unless there is serious miscarriage of justice.
Eh. how come this became death note discussion?
Kira as in Light? I didn’t watch anime but just the movie versions. Anyway he started noble but then he became obssessed and for self preservation he tried to justify his actions and he himself turned into those trigger happy murderers? The point is what started as noble will always escalate into corruption when given unlimited power. No one will be able to resist the ability to play God.
“Sammul Chan: He’s very suitable for the role. He plays intelligent types very convincingly. His character has charm and his eyes are indeed very attractive twinkling in merriment”
Haha. Yes, he indeed has twinkling eyes. I started notice this as I watched him in ‘Survivor’s Law’. I have to admit, that series made me a partial fan of his.
I didn’t watch the movie or the anime. I read the manga, but, I skip a lot of parts after L’s death and jump to the ending.
The story seems to become less interesting after L’s gone.
I don’t think it’s totally N’s or M’s fault. N is a pretty interesting character too. But, the story just became bigger scale with too many people getting involved. Before that, it’s just L and Light battling wits.
@Funn,
I enjoy shows which have a long-drawn, intelligent battle of the wits. “Relics of An Emissary” has this characteristic due to the main leads all having ulterior motives. No one is as they appear. So naturally thought of “Death Note” since there is virtually very little action in the series, but the tension is gripping due to the intellectual battle.
Now TVB series is more “battle of the words” since even small cameo characters always have such a smart-mouth and huge family arguments with lots of face-slapping are the norm.
Ramblind again…. I like the premise of “7 Days in Life,” but why does it have to be a romantic comedy as well? It wasted a classic premise of the locked-room murder and who could be the culprit.
Watching “Relics of an Emissary” and thinking about “The Four” since it is about imperial guards. Can’t help thinking how “The Four” wasted a dream male lead cast (Raymond, Sammul, Ron, and Kenneth). The series lacked tension
Kidd,
I only watched the “Death Note” anime and didn’t read the manga, which is expensive to buy complete collections in English. For this reason, I don’t read a lot of manga.
One of the rare ones I read was “Sanctuary.” It contains some risque illustrations, but this is an excellent read. It’s about two childhood friends who survived the killing fields in Cambodia and vow to change Japan after they go back to their home country. Hojo moves up in the mafia world while Chiaki moves up in the political world. Both men use ruthless methods to eradicate enemies, while being secret alliances on the side. Intense characterizations and fascinating plot.
Is anyone else a “Sanctuary” fan?
@ Jayne: Free Eng scan of mangas are posted online. You can find it in mangareader or onemanga or mangafox.
Sanctuary or Angel Sanctuary? I’m planning to watch Sanctuary after finishing Angel Sanctuary :D.
Fox,
Thanks for the manga leads.It’s” Sanctuary” which is about two friends who experienced near death together and retun to Japan. One enters the mafia while the other politics. It’s riveting and great illustrations, although rated R (mature content).
I agree about Ell. Kong, dislike her new face from the knife, dislike like her grace, not that Ell. had charm in her roles, Ell. is not cute and just loud
and like a lose dog, pardon me, Ell. needs classes to refine herself and find some grace not just hopping on about in tv city/on set.
I think Joe Ma will be nominated and probably win. Rather bold series, but in the end all these talks, I am sure it is mild in comparison.
But funny how far Sammul was standing away from Joe. Since Joe’s character is so sadistic and if this was Hollywood, that scene would have implied more very openly.
And that rape scene, looking at the picture, not a hair out of place. That I find unrealistic. At least there’s no exploding fireworks or whatever. Of course lost of subtext.
I think Sire Ma’s hair was messy afterwards in the series, it didn’t really show so much in the picture above. But it was more of the back of hair was messy, like it was covered with pieces of rice and hay
I thought Joe Ma did a terrible job in the series! I couldn’t get any sort of feeling from him. No expressions from the face and I don’t know, his role just wasn’t memorable for me.
sammul chan always looks good. i love his small lips. they’re so cute. he has a great smile and very attractive looking. he looks sweet. i wouldn’t mind having him as a husband.
I agree. His lips are thin and always look rosy. I love his complexion he has very smooth skin. He’s cute. It’s TVB’s loss for not promoting someone as cute as him.
I also agree, sammul chan is cute & has smooth fair skin. He is so sweet and attractive. I admired him as well.
Besides his cute small lips he also has a pair of adoring shiny eyes. About the smoothness of his skin I agree too. His skin looks milky white and touchable. He can compete with Korean pretty boys.
if he has a ball woohoo
sounds like Sally needs some homo, Sam seems to girlly, which seem gay, is Sam Gay, lol
hehe, sammul chan looks a little too feminine for me 🙂 Such beautiful skin and rosy cheeks… makes me jealous!
lol..interesting article to compare this to “3D Sex & Zen” -not that I watched the latter but while I was watching Relic of an Emissary I didn’t find anything wrong with those scenes lol I think they fitted into the storyline really well.
As for Sammul and Joe scene, I did feel slight goosebumps watchng it because they seemed slightly gay but Sammul’s supposed to be an eunuch anyway (I thought that scene was to remind the audience that Sammul is one..) XD
I just saw the episode with the bath scene. I didn’t find it gay at all. Just a little awkward that Sammul said to Joe that he wanted to “serve” him one last time.
Poor Sammul looked so out of place. He was so far away from Joe like he had a disease. Plus it was a very short scene and there wasn’t even interesting dialogue to go with it.
Kinda sad that they always portray eunuchs to be more “gay”.
Eunuchs are actually gay since they are not men that are like women and are only interested in men. I think it is sort of strange to see Sammuel in a eunuch role but maybe it was a good challenge for him.
Eunuchs are not gay – they’re just androgynous. What makes a eunuch a eunuch is not from their sexual orientation but due to biological factors. Eunuchs lose the ability to build testosterone, hence they lose their masculine qualities, such as having a high voice and not growing facial hair.
“I think it is sort of strange to see Sammuel in a eunuch role but maybe it was a good challenge for him.”
It is indeed a challenge, not only because the character is an eunuch, but, also because he’s a famous historical character.
Haha, actually why is it strange? Sammul has played all kinds of characters before, from gay to crossdresser. What’s so strange about playing an eunuch now? Lots of actors have played eunuch before.
@ HTS: Eunuchs and gays are different.
Eunuchs – most of them are still interested in woman, but they can’t. The kids who become eunuchs in the small age (<10) don't know what sex is, so they don't have this demand. The elder who has sex, after being eunuchs, they still love woman.
In real history, many eunuchs have wives (they just get married to have a guarantee for their last time). Some adapted kids.
Most of gays still have all of their parts (not being cut like eunuchs), just tat their sexual oriental is different to straights.
So don't mix up eunuch and gay.
I just get the impression that they are gay but maybe they are not…
so is Sam’s role an eunuchs of the sort, or just a slave turn butt’ler/caretaker
exceedingly femme la Yan-King
I actually thought the bath scene was very touching. Sammul’s a eunuch after all, and in that bath scene he’s showing a feminine side that we usually do not see – emotional, sensitive, and caring. It shows the audience how deep his friendship is with Joe. Sammul’s acting in it was a bit awkward though LOL. He could have done a lot better…
I re-watched that scene; it was a pretty touching scene indeed.such loyalty/friendship between the two!
When I first saw the scene I thought … “eh, that’s a bit weird..gay,” but after watching further I realized Sammul was actually a Eunice, so they scene makes sense. It was touching, cuz before I knew he was a eunice, you could really tell that he had a good friendship between joe.
I heard that this was Sammuel’s last series with TVB. I am a bit sad that he left TVB but I will be happy to see him Mainland series. I hope that he will be in some good ones and maybe one day, he will come back to TVB. I think he will eventually just like many artists have…
I doubt so, after all the stuffs between him and TVB.
However, it isn’t a bad thing.
I have seen many other artists argue and all with TVB too. Even Amy Chan who was blacklisted is now back, so anything is possible. However, it is not necessarily a bad thing that he left TVB. I will miss seeing him in TVB series, but hope to see him in Mainland series and other productions. Maybe he will make his fans and others watch other series instead of just TVB series.
HeTieShou,
What makes you think eunuchs are only interested in men? Yes they do not have the tools to procreate BUT some do actually get married and adopted children even if they can’t create one nor have a fulfiling real sexual relationship with a woman. But that is not to say sex is just all about penetration. And just because eunuchs got their manhood (oh I sound like those romance novels!) cut off, doesn’t make them gearing towards being gays. Some may entertain men, doesn’t make them gay, just made them living a very difficult life. So does that mean concubines who never had the emperor touched them were lesbians?
Sammul does look like an eunuch for the fact he is fair, pretty with smooth skin and is slim.
wiat i’m always confused as to what is really being removed. The testicles or the weewee?
@Darren, to become an eunuch, the testes are cut. It’s the testes that produce testosterone (needed for male characteristic development) and sperm (needed for procreation). They need their penis to pee.
Balls
Actually for those eunuch in the Chinese imperial palace, it’s both.
Uhm, only balls are. Weewee is needed to pee.
I watched a show in Discovery about eunuchs in China places. They still has weewee parts. The so-called “jewel” is their 2 balls.
Depends on which dynasty I suppose but generally, the whole thing. The reason is simple. They wanted a servant who can’t have sexual intercourse with their women to serve them and not cutting all is redundant. So Kidd is right, it is the whole thing.
The weewee is not needed. THey will make a hole there so they I suppose squat when they pee.
And internet is so wonderful, except the picture is too small. So you read yourself lar.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HS9ka-tLWeAJ:wuxiapedia.com/Research/Societies/Chinese-Eunuchs+eunuchs+during+chinese+dynasty,+castrate+which+part&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=my&source=www.google.com.my
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch
Again the purpose is simple.More appropriate term is castration. What a way to enter into civil service eh?
Haizz, just find a person who do such thing to dog and cat, they’ll tell you where you can cut.
Make a hole? With the surgery techniques of such period?
Qing dynasty. Search back to older time.
And see, the wee wee is still there.
That’s why they didn’t care if the kid/man lives or dies. Back then there is no human rights. It is total castration because it defeats the purpose if anything is left.
By the way Qing Dynasty isn’t old, it is rather new.
Ahh internet, oh internet, how shall I write an ode to thee?
http://www.europeanurology.com/article/S1569-9056(07)60138-9/pdf/139+CASTRATION+-+THE+EUNUCHS+OF+QING+DYNASTY+CHINA+-+A+MEDICAL+AND+HISTORICAL+REVIEW
They dun care for humanity, but they still need ppl. Cut the weewee will cause to a lot of death. How many men can live after this surgery? Just cut the testees are enough, so why they have to do unnecessary actions?
Fox, you must first understand the context why eunuchs exist. The last article I posted explained that a bit.
“Make a hole? With the surgery techniques of such period?”
That’s what they did in Qing Dynasty.
Castration in the Ming Dynasty. They cut all.
http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=35&catid=2&subcatid=2
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0507/feature2/learn.html
http://www.zum.de/whkmla/sp/0910/nhw/nhwlog.html#i3
There were cases where less radical castration was performed where they left the penis intact. But, most in cases, they still remove the whole thing.
@ Chriselle: I forgot that society value slim ppl. Uhm ok. I like chubby guys because they looks cute. Oh, why you hug a chubby guy, the feeling is so warm, so good haha.
And I give up my comment on SC’s look.
@ Fox
“@ Chriselle: I forgot that society value slim ppl. Uhm ok. I like chubby guys because they looks cute. Oh, why you hug a chubby guy, the feeling is so warm, so good haha.
And I give up my comment on SC’s look.”
You replied in the wrong thread. It’s the thread below. 🙂
Lol, Chubby has its negative side? New thing I’ve learned. Meh, chubby is always cute.
Ok, base on your reply to Chriselle, I now believe that you really are unaware of the negative connotation of ‘chubby’ in this society that values slenderness (I mentioned this society’s view before too, but, you must have missed it) and you mean no negativity. 🙂
Uhm yes, wrong convo :D. My reply is to the convo below.
@Kidd, Oops, I didn’t know. I usually click on the commenter’s name in the Recent Comments and it leads directly to the comment on a different tab. However, I may have had too many tabs open and replied to the wrong one, lol.
“Ok, base on your reply to Chriselle, I now believe that you really are unaware of the negative connotation of ‘chubby’ in this society that values slenderness (I mentioned this society’s view before too, but, you must have missed it) and you mean no negativity.”
I don’t exactly get what you mean here, especially the part of “and you mean no negativity.”
He/She is referring to my post, not yours
@Fox, I realized after I posted.
Watching the documentary on Zheng He. The castration was full. Both penis and scrotum were removed.
Lots of record Zheng He has written was burned by the subsequent Emperor. Don’t know why Chinese emperors like to burn books.
Sammul isn’t slim.
Slender
Also not. He is kinda chubby now.
Not chubby. He just built some muscles.
Have a pic? From what I’m seeing him in recent function’s pic, he is chubby and I dun see any muscle?
http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp295/silenttearsaries/0404-00282-019b1.jpg
Not slim, not muscle. Kinda chubby.
That is called chubby?
Yes
If that is chubby, you people must mean stick thin when it comes to slim. I think he looks good. Probably a bit of slender muscle.
Oh I see many other actors who are skeleton if Sammul in this pic isn’t chubby. Of course, not too fat but kinda fat.
Beauty on the eye of the beholder, so maybe chubby is the same.
He.is.not.chubby!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He.is.healthy.weight!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And.me.grinding.my.teeth.saying.this.is.gonna.make.me.toothless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Base on the picture Fox posted, his body is not chubby at all. Only his face is a bit rounded. He looks slim in that picture. Hardly chubby.
“Oh I see many other actors who are skeleton if Sammul in this pic isn’t chubby. “
I don’t find him chubbier than other actors if based on the picture you posted. Of course, if compared to Raymond Lam, yes, he’s chubby.
Note: Sammul has once said that the part he most easily get fat on is his face. It did show in his more founded face. But, his body figure is fine. As for muscle, how can you tell those are ‘fat’ or muscle with the long sleeve sweater and not very tight shirt on?
@ Funn: Dentist said: grinding.teeth isn’t good for health.
And toothless isn’t good for look :P.
@ Kidd: So I’m asking for pic from you to let me see his muscle.
I still think Sammul Chan is kinda chubby now, compare with he himself in the past.
However, he is chubby or healthy weight I don’t really care. I just wanna comment tat he isn’t slim in my opinion. Toothless Funn will ^@(@&#^))!&# on me, I know 😛 (kidding)
@ Fox
I can’t go searching for shirtless pictures for now. I’m sure you can go look for it yourself if you want. You are so resourceful.
“However, he is chubby or healthy weight I don’t really care. I just wanna comment tat he isn’t slim in my opinion. “
Yes, you care. He’s chubby to you and you will insist on this point again and again using all kind of arguments/reasoning until the other party admit defeat or left the argument. Then, you will be the victor and the one who is right. 😛
If you ‘just want to comment’, you wouldn’t go
Funn: Sammul is slim
Fox: He isn’t slim
Funn: Slender
Fox: Also not. He’s chubby.
Kidd: No He just built muscles.
Fox: Have a pic? He is chubby and I dun see any muscle?
Fox:
Funn: If that is chubby, you people must mean stick thin when it comes to slim. I think he looks good. Probably a bit of slender muscle.
Fox: Oh I see many other actors who are skeleton if Sammul in this pic isn’t chubby. Of course, not too fat but kinda fat.
And going on and on. This is not ‘just want to comment’.
OMG if Sammul is chubby then I must be really obese to you.
@ Kidd: Ok you caught me. I care :P. Then he is still chubby hehe.
As for the pic, thank you for your praise but I’m sure as a fan, you will have more pic than me :P.
@ scarlee: I haven’t seen you then no comment.
He look healthy weight to me :P. Very nice looking
Oh yea, because he isn’t RAYMOND LAM! Please!
Also that is a bad picture you posted. Couldn’t you post a normal picture? I guess not huh because you don’t like him. And even though that is a bad picture you can still clearly tell he is not fat nor chubby. And to be exact, we can’t even really tell since he’s not wearing thin clothes so why judge?
LMAO~, it’s a pic from his newest news. If you have better pic, why dun post it up?
And it’s so hurtful to Sammul’s fans to hear ppl say he is chubby? Meh, ppl think chubby = cute.
Oh yeah, he is SAMMUL CHAN. Obvious.
It’s called I have better things to do then search for a guys picture. (Especially not being a fan like someone but yet goes on and find photos of them) I don’t really care much about Sammul but he’s definitely not fat or chubby.
Oh also I guess I can say Raymond looks like a sick guy since he looks so thin with his face sinking in.
If like, no one say you can’t say such thing. Or you even can say he is a monster with 2 horns and green face, it’s your opinion, no problem.
It’s my time and I can waste it by searching Sammul’s pic, if like, lol. You dun have time to do such thing then jealous? Lol lol, I’m kidding. Nvm.
To make it clearer, @ FanWen: He in “If like, no one say you can’t say such thing. Or you even can say he is a monster with 2 horns and green face, it’s your opinion, no problem.” = LF, not SC. Please don’t say that I’m saying SC is a monster or something like that. To me, your opinion then you can say watever you want.
My opinion is: SC is kinda chubby. That’s all. If it’s too hurtful to SC’s fans, sorry. I think chubby = cute, but I guess SC’s fans dun think so. Different view on same matter isn’t anything too strange.
“My opinion is: SC is kinda chubby. That’s all. If it’s too hurtful to SC’s fans, sorry. I think chubby = cute, but I guess SC’s fans dun think so. Different view on same matter isn’t anything too strange.”
Another argument tactic that you often use. 😛
I’m sure you are aware of the negative connotation of chubby (in a society that values slenderness). If it’s anything positive, I doubt you will use it on Sammul and insist the point again and again since you don’t like Sammul.
But, now people are upset, you go ‘hei, I don’t mean it as a bad thing. I think it’s something good. Only you think it’s bad. :P’
I doubt when you hear Sammul’s fans said ‘Ohh, Sammul is so cute’ you will go ‘yeah, Sammul is cute’.
LOL! Samuel is not chubby at all maybe he gained some weight however he has always been very thin so this is just healthy. If he is chubby then Raymond is super chubby
@ Kidd: I will say so.
I really think Chubby = cute. SC looks better to me when he is chubbier.
Do you see I have any comment on SC when Funn said: “he is fair, pretty with smooth skin” as I can see the same thing? I only commented on “slim” because now I don’t think he is slender or slim.
I don’t like him but it doesn’t mean I hated him. I don’t like his action (recent scandal of him vs TVB) more than his look, my friend. His look is an ok factor to me.
Oops, you already thought it’s negative, so in your mind you make it negative.
Lol, Chubby has its negative side? New thing I’ve learned. Meh, chubby is always cute.
Why I have to use tactic with you? lol lol.
If he is chubby then Raymond is super chubby
As a fan, I really hope this quote is true.
@Kidd, Haha, at how you wrote out the whole conversation. As I saw it, the argument of whether or not Sammul is chubby or not is going nowhere. Everything is merely Fox’s opinion.
@Fox, Just imagine if someone said, “Oh, Fox, you’re so chubby!” Would you instantly translate that in your mind to, “Oh, Fox, you’re so cute!”???? Lol, I don’t think so. Why don’t you just say Sammul is cute and adorable then if it means the same thing?
Haha, I would love if someone say Fox is chubby :x. Girls are afraid of chubby, I suppose. But SC isn’t a girl? Fans also feel afraid for him to be said as chubby? Weird weird :P. However, ok, I was wrong. SC fans, please accept my sorry to say SC isn’t slim. Sorry for hurt you. I’ll keep it to my mind that SC looks healthy and so good.
Sorry, I wanna make a heart icon but the emoticon is different to I thought. : x becomes :x. I don’t mean 😡 at all :P.
@Fox, Haha, no worries. Since I don’t consider myself a fan of Sammul, you didn’t have the ability to hurt me. 😀
This is interesting. So girls can be called chubby and it’s bad? But for guys, it’s cute?
I think chubby CAN be cute as in Sammul’s case. I agree that his face can gain a bit of fat, but that doesn’t make him chubby if you take his entire body into consideration. But chubby doesn’t EQUAL cute since you can be fat and not have a pretty face at all.
Chubby does give a negative connotation, especially in a society that values slender people.
Agree Sammul does look like eunuch because of his pretty face and fair skin. He’s perfect fit for the part.
Yea, people need to understand the eunuchs. They actually cut out both parts which is pretty sad. And nobody cared if you didn’t survive because it’s in ancient times, obviously the law isn’t so great. Not that right now is any better but nobody had any rights at all back then. So if they were to die after their parts were cut off, then that’s their own problem. The king would just find someone else who is loyal to serve and not die.
Well that is the impression that I get from watching series about them… They wear make up, go after guys for the most part and don’t ever seem to be interested in women in that way. I know that some get “married” and adopt kids. But their marriage is more for just companionship only and they adopt kids since they can’t have their own anymore. ALso, the way they act and talk really sound “gay” to me…
No, I don’t think that concubines that never got touched by the king are lesbian at all. That is a completely different issue…
I agree that Sammul has a pretty boy type of look so he is fit to play a eunuch.
@HTS, If I remember correctly, the only TVB series that I’ve seen eunuchs that “sounded” gay was in Virtues of Harmony. I don’t know if you watched the sitcom or remember the character “Ling Gong Gong”, but he was gay and liked Frankie Lam’s character, Kam Nin. He also wore make-up and had two braids; furthermore, the way he spoke grossed me out.
Most eunuchs in TVB series are only really background and minor characters and they don’t place too much importance on them. I’m not sure, historically, however.
I believe the reason they are “sound” gay is because of a lack of testosterone, or some other male hormone, that causes them to lose their deep voice. Normally, men have deep voices and that’s also one of the reasons they’re attractive and the reason I couldn’t stand Ling Gong Gong’s voice. There is this guy in my class who has a softer, and scratchier woman’s voice, which is quite annoying since he’s so outspoken in class.
Sammul’s role is the most important eunuch role in probably all of TVB history? I remember Kenny Wong was an eunuch in War and Beauty, but his character is not that significant. I was wondering what series in particular made you think they were gay, lol??
@Chriselle,
Well, I watch a lot of series from Mainland, Taiwan and other companies too so I was not only referring to TVB. I know why they sound the way they do. Yes, I did watch Virtues of Harmony and I know who you are talking about.. If you are talking about TVB series, then I can’t really say since I have not watched that many TVB series with eunuchs lately since I don’t watch TVB as much as before…
Even if I did name series you may not know them since they are not TVB series.
@HTS, I see. I know mainland produces lots of ancient dramas each year that are rather lengthy. Not sure how historically accurate they are though. I’m pretty sure TVB’s costume dramas aren’t that historically faithful and they always add their own twist to it. I believe that Ling Gong Gong who “sounded” gay in VOH served to bring extra humor to the audience.
It’s always important to back up your argument with some sort of evidence, whether the other person watches the mainland dramas or not. She can always do some research on it in forums or other websites or maybe ask a friend to confirm. I was wondering if you can name some series… ?? 🙂
However in VOH, Hawick Lau’s chac is also a gong gong but he loves woman.
@Fox, Hawick’s character never went through the entire process so it ends up that he wasn’t an eunuch after all.
Huh huh, which part this was mentioned? Up to the part when the Princess comes back to the palaces, I haven’t seen such thing.
In War and Beauty, Kenny Wong’s chac as an eunuch loves Maggie Cheung’s.
@Fox – Hawick Lau’s character got Sherming Yiu’s character pregnant. This is towards the end of the series.
“ALso, the way they act and talk really sound “gay” to me…”
What is ‘sound gay’? Do you mean talking and acting in a feminine way?
Anyway, if the eunuch in the series you watch act ‘gay’ to you, this is just how the actor choose to play him. How the actor interpret him. It’s not fact.
The interpretation of the viewers and what the actor want to show might also differ. The actor might just want to show he’s feminine, but, you interpret it as gay.
Lastly, maybe that’s how the actors are taught to act in the Art Academy in China, so, eunuchs in China series all act ‘gay’.
In TVB series, you don’t see eunuch act ‘gay’ all the time. Kenny Wong and Pierre Ngo didn’t act feminine/gay in WAB, Vin Choi and Cheung Chi Kong didn’t act gay BTROC. They also don’t wear tons of make up.
Kenny Wong loves Maggie Cheung in the WAB
Vin Choi loves Tavia in BTROC
CCK loves Michelle Tim in BTROC
Thank scarlee, I haven’t reached to this part :). Happy for him. He is such a cute character.
Sounding gay does not equate to being gay. They do not correlate at all. Technically, eunuchs shouldn’t even be attracted to both men and women because they don’t have sexual drive.
Sammul does look like an eunuch but he acts like one, lol
Frankly I am excited about Joe Ma again. I saw the trailer, he seems rather good in that serious I want power sort of character. It is Michael Tse I don’t like. But this looks like a rather good series. I am always good for political series in the olden days. I just wished the ending wasn’t that nonsense.
Oh yeah, Joe Ma is the only reason (male) makes me wanna watch this series. He is always good at strong fierce man.
I can see that you don’t like Sammul
I have never said I like Sammul
Joe, not the known Yan King, tvb maybe. I prefer Laughing gor’s acting, just his role is not the main man!!
Not a fan of Joe but he looks quite good in this role. Michael Tse is an eye sore! I can’t stand that guy. As well as Kate Tsui and Elanne Kong. Those were mainly the reason why I don’t want to watch this series.
Michael Tse is quite below standard in this series. Among the guys he’s my least favourite character.
His best character is still Laughing GOr.
@lol, Michael Tse is below standard because of his acting or his character?
Actually, I quite like him, even more so than Laughing Gor. I still couldn’t understand his sudden rose to popularity after that cop show. I actually feel a bit more for his character in Relic than in E.U.
Haven’t see this yet, and likely will not see it either as I can’t stand Kate and really avoid any of her stuf.. But, from these pics: Sammuel and Joe looks like guy couple and so much provacative scenes.
jayne.. the writer quoted you in this article
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/rape-m-homoeroticism-190200083.html
Emily, thanks for the link! I was unaware that portions of my article was replicated in Yahoo’s Singapore site. The reporter took exact phrases from my article (which was translated from Appledaily), but only referenced my site in the Joe Ma statement, making it sound like the rest is written in his words. Such lazy reporting!
It’s about time HK pushed some boundaries. We can’t keep portraying characters in mundane personalities. I’m not saying it needs to be over the top sexual. But there are series for everyone and series not for everyone. And that’s universal. Perhaps there should be a rating system for series just to give parents a heads up.
Perhaps there should be a rating system for series just to give parents a heads up.
They technically do. Right before a drama airs on TVB Jade a warning would show up saying that the program is rated PG and that viewer discretion is advised.
Sire Ma’s rape scene is very mild, therefore why such a hoo ha made ?
Emperor’s Yan whipping scene is to show that he uses Kate Tsui to report back to her superior that he has started to go crazy.
The bathing scene between Joe Ma & Sammul Chan is really nothing, just a a dishearted vassal serving his master one last time.
French kissing is normal, even sitcoms have it.
Overall, the show is good. All the actors did a good job except Elanne Kong. Elanne Kong is just overacting, loud and irritating.
I think Joe Ma whipping scene is NOT S&M, at the time Joe were go crazy, he feels bad that he not being a good son after he found out that his real mother was that crazy corcubine. Maybe he just think like a child, when we kids when we being bad, our mom or dad usually whip our butt. Maybe do that Joe feel better inside, it is the guilt that he have that he not threat his mother well.
It was a ploy to make the Emperor believe he really has gone crazy.